The Neurodiversity Hub

 

Have you put any specific strategies in place as a neurodivergent manager?

Well, I wouldn't say it's specific strategies because of my neurodivergence, um,

but I'd say there's ways of doing things that, um,

regardless of whether or not it's my neurodivergence

or just my preferences, um, that it helps me

to work that little bit better.

Um, so for example, I took my shoes off when I came in.

Uh, physical comfort is very important to me.

Yeah, I, I tend to sit in weird positions

and that sort of thing, and so, um,

my team has gotten really, really used to me being, um,

contorted or playing with my hair

in meetings and things like that.

Um, but yeah, not so much any strategies

as a neurodivergent manager.

It's more just I know my preferences

and so then it makes it really easy for me to understand,

I suppose, that like my team

around me will all have different preferences as well.

Everybody does their best work when they're comfortable.

So my, my neurodivergency is dyslexia, so, um,

for me, I've masked right from a child.

So for me, I always saw it as a weakness.

Um, I, I felt like I was like, you know, taken off

and given extra support at school, so it kind of made me,

made me feel like I was a bit

special, um, and things like that.

So for me, coming into the work life, I found

that it was, it was important for me to show

that I didn't have that, like,

Right, That con, it's not a condition,

but that thing going on that I felt I was labeled with.

So I never said anything initially,

but I've noticed that I've put a lot

of strategies in place actually from a work perspective.

So, you know, I'll make lists, I'll make lists for lists.

Um, I will make sure I've got a sub list, uh, formal list,

um, you know, so that I know what I need to prioritize.

Um, for me, verbal communication, if, if it's given

to me in like large context,

I can feel quite overwhelmed by that.

So I really need to break it down.

Um, so it's about asking, asking those questions

around checking, understanding.

Have I understood that?

You know, no, no questions are silly question kind of thing.

And feeling comfortable with that.

You know, these, these are the strategies I put in place.

So I think for me it's been about

being open with my manager.

So as I said to you before, I've masked massively.

Um, I've worked for Aviva for 19 years nearly,

and I've probably been more open about it in

the last three or four years.

So yeah, I, I've, I've found being open

with my manager having a conversation if I'm particularly

struggling with something, then just saying like, you know,

if you've got any ideas of what I can, what I can do here,

um, and that's where AI came up, you know, have you used to,

to put, you know, information into,

and you know, where, so that I don't feel

so overwhelmed at those, at those points,

and I think that works massively for me.

Um, I have over, over the time I've also spoken

to them about, um, you know, just not breaking

that information down if we're in a one-to-one

and we're having quite a deep conversation,

just saying like, like, can we revisit that?

You know, it might be a bit repetitive, but

because he understands that I've, I've had

that then, oh, I've got that.

Should I say he, you know, he's more open

to going back over things

and not, not making me feel like, oh, here we go again.

She's asked the same question again. You know?

Um, just understanding that.

So, um, yeah, that's, that's worked really well for me.

Um, yeah.

Oh, That's good. Yeah. Yeah.

Uh, and I think it for, for me as well, I, I find that being

dyslexic and having a neurodivergent mindset, it,

I'm more open with my team around like what their needs are

and asking them about like, you know, what,

what can we do to help you?

And, you know, helping them to be more open about it.

I think that's really important.

Oh yeah. I mean, it's like we were saying earlier, like if

as a manager you are able to, you know, demonstrate

that like this is just part of the normal Yeah.

Beautiful difference of the human species, um,

and that you're not a problem,

that everybody at some point in their lives is gonna

need a little bit more support.

Society's changed massively though, hasn't it?

You know, and it is okay to just be you, you know,

and be high functioning you

by putting all the things in place

that you do. What about you?

Well, so I, given that I

work in a data science team, um,

and we are all little computer nerds.

A lot of us are the kind of people

that like quiet individual activities, you know, we're,

we're not naturally a, a bunch of massive extroverts,

so people tend not

to take offense if you're a little bit in your own

world or whatever.

Um, so I mean, I've found that the type of team

that I'm in plays very much to my likes and my strengths.

Yeah. As soon as you start working with the way you are,

rather than kind of in spite of it, like trying

to push against it, um,

Confidence up.

How's that?

I mean, I can't think of anything.

But again, that's, that's probably

because I've been quite explicit in this is what I want

or need or whatever.

Um, and yeah, my, my manager's quite good at, um,

so he is been a manager for a long time now, so being able

to tell the difference between this is a thing

that I don't want to do versus this is a thing

that I don't currently have the capacity to do.

Yeah, right. Um, so yeah, no,

it's actually a really nice relationship.

Like there's some tasks that you just don't wanna do

and it doesn't vibe with my way of thinking.

So if I've got to sit down and write a report mm

Mm You procrastinate, put it off, put it off, put it

Off, put it off, put it off, put it off.

'cause I know that I can crack it out in the last

half hour or whatever.

But, um, that's when it's very handy for him to be able

to say no, no other queries.

Because if anybody else asks me for help, I,

I absolutely will choose any other adventure than this one

that I don't want to be on right now.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

So does your manager have to do any of

that sort of thing for you or?

I'd say no.

No, I don't think there's anything more

my manager could do for me.

Um, I, I, because I think it

depends what I need at the time.

So at the moment, and I'm answering the question from now,

nothing at the moment, but I'm quite open to say,

oh, can you help me with this?

Or, you know, can we have a, can we sit down

and have a conversation about that?

You know, I've just changed roles recently, so, um,

I've got a new manager, I've been quite open

with him about my dyslexia

and, you know, if I've not quite understood something,

he knows that he might need to explain it a little bit more,

you know, subtle for me, I guess, um, break it down.

Okay. Um, so yeah, I think the, the fact that

that openness is there is good.

Um, I think for me, I would say, um, I'm unique.

Um, and I think the fact that I've, one of the strengths is

that I've accepted my dyslexia, so

therefore what I'm starting

to see from me is my strengths start to come

through in my confidence, whereas I didn't have a lot

of confidence probably about five years ago.

Um, and so yeah, I think that that is really starting to,

to kick in because I'm starting to accept

and not mask as much, um, and, and just be me.

Yeah, I think it is, it is helpful. Yeah.

When there are certain things where it's like, if you've had

to go through a bit of a process yourself of being like,

okay, well what am I into?

Like, what do I need? What do I want?

You know, what is it that drives me about work? Um,

Sometimes it's the

journey you've been on though, isn't it?

To like, what if I, again, I myself going through

that acceptance phase of, you know, I am who I am.

I think, you know, when you've been through that journey

and you've collected yourself

and you bring yourself through it, you know that,

that, that gives you strength.

You've got experience then to speak to other people, um,

about your own acceptance, your own, you know, story and

and how you've got to where you are today.

Um, I think people appreciate that.

Would you say like, you know, you're brave, would you say

that sometimes your, your

money strengths are that you're brave?

Um, uh, it's a lot better a Cliche, but

That, um,

so I don't embarrass easily ly enough.

Uh, though that's taken a while.

There's a right and a wrong answer that's very black

and white autistic thinking, didn't know it was at the time.

Um, you are either good or you're bad.

Uh, it's perfect or it's trash.

Uh, but now I'm just like,

no one cares, no bothered.

Um, so yeah, I'm very happy to be the one

that asks a stupid question in an all hands meeting

or says, I, I don't think they know what you mean.

Or, um, yeah, to be a little bit blunt, a little bit,

stick your head above the parapet. Yeah.

And feel comfortable with that And

be like, I don't care.

Yeah. But no, I mean, in my specific line of work, some

of the autistic traits do lend itself very well

to analytical roles where it's,

I can take a pile of data

and then pull you something useful out of it.

What does burnout look like for you and how do you manage it?

For me, burnout feels

as though I have been completely overwhelmed

and I need to take period

to myself to shut down.

I had a long period

of sick leave about starting about two years ago with

what at the time was diagnosed as depression.

And I now see that while depression

certainly played a part in it, I think that autistic burnout

played an equally big part.

If that had been recognized at the time,

I think I could have returned to a fixed date

and returned to work much more quickly than I actually did.

Since being diagnosed and reading about my condition

and burnout, there are steps I'm taking

to limit it both

throughout the working day.

Things like using noise canceling headphones

and tinted glasses, getting a bit

of a break when I go home, not going straight into

helping my daughter do her homework

or cooking dinner to, on a weekly basis,

getting some downtime each weekend when I can

and not spending a large part of the weekend on the chores,

visiting parents doing things with my daughter

and all of that is helping make me a lot calmer,

a lot happier, and I'm sure much reducing the risk

of a future period of absolute burnout and sick leave.

Absolutely. I, I, myself, I was

slightly disillusioned with how the universities decided to,

uh, assess my degree.

It was basically all final exam, uh,

with very little coursework.

I took physics so it was basically a year's worth

of content into one exam at the end.

Um, and so I felt like I didn't

need to work for most of the year.

I'd do the work as I went along,

but then I'd only have to really clock in to the end.

And so I would do eight weeks just sitting at my desk at the

end of the year solid for like 14 hours a day

and then I finished the exams

and then I wouldn't be able to

do anything for like three weeks.

And I now recognize that that was a burnout approach.

Um, for me when I was in that period

and I was feeling that burnout.

I felt like the, I was carrying the weight

of the world on my shoulders.

I felt heavy. My,

my brain felt like it was full at all times,

like full of cotton wool.

My thoughts felt slower.

Do you feel similar experiences when you're feeling

that burnout coming on or is it different for you?

I do, yes. I remember that feeling from university exams

and actuarial exams

and I also remember it from

periods of intensity, both at work

and outside work.

So two years ago I'd had a very intense period at work.

I'd had an intense period dealing with family illness

and the combination of those made me feel very much

as you have just described, which I now know

was in very large part burnout.

Unfortunately I didn't know that then.

Well, I guess it's useful going into for both

of us going into those periods of intensity

'cause they always are gonna happen indeed.

To be able to recognize that feeling coming on,

having the coping mechanism you spoke about

and for myself, I'm quite similar.

I need some time away so we can move forwards into the world

knowing those things.

That's right. I would rather, and I'm sure my family

and my manager would much rather, I took short breaks

as needed during the working day

and week rather than not taking those breaks then

and it leading to a much longer period

of downtime afterwards.